Discussing :: The Dog or the Owner/

#1

The Dog or the Owner/

After a spate of dog attacks in NZ looks like the Govt are going to review the Dog laws, hey I thought the Green's micro-chipping bill was going to sort the out?...Anyway now I for one am tired of hearing dog owners say "he is so good around kids" after they have mauled one. Pit-bull or dangerous breeds (any dog really) need owners who will train and discipline them rather than just own them as a statist symbol by trying to look tough. After all, Dogs are are a pack animal and they want to be the Alpha male. Also the owners need a dog only area on the section as well as constant supervision when any kids are around the dog. Even this is not a 100% guarantee that your dog won't bite but it's going to help more than getting a dog and tie it to a chain and expect it to be "man's best friend". Banning dangerous breeds won't really help because people will work out ways to get them (lying about breed, black market etc). Now I own a German Shepherd and my 8 year old daughter bugs the crap out of him all day (headlocks, gets in his face etc) and is forever in trouble (smacking bill doesn't exists at our house after she gets told off the 4th time). I've had to stress to her that she can not do this to other dogs (as well as our own) as they may attack her as she's was constantly trying to pat/cuddle every dog. She's finally stopped doing this to other dogs which is a start I suppose. Kids mainly get attacked because they basically don't know any better. It's the muppet owners that need to wake up and use some basic common sense.


kinda disagree about the every dog wants to be the alpha too otherwise in the wild all the dogs would be doing all day is fighting over who was the top dog. Some dogs have no interest in being in charge but will step up if they dont feel like they have a leader. Also its rare you see a dog attack a puppy or another pack member in the wild, so i think it tends to be more the dogs that arent treated as part of the pack.


There are so many variants to this problem. Banning certain breeds is one answer that has been mooted, but which ones? - not so long ago the German Shepherd was the problem, then the Rottie, then the Dobermann etc etc etc. Personally I feel that education goes a long way - and if you can't educate the adults (and it seems many of them are either not interested or too lazy to do anything until something horrible happens), perhaps the kids might be the way to go. I know of people who have taken dogs to Kindies and Schools, who have had very well received programmes introducing kids to the correct way to handle dogs.


thing is too pit bulls are banned from import/breeding but not the American Staffordshire Terrier which is the "show dog" verison of the pit bull so you can import them that way. apparently tho just reading that pittys and rottweilers are responsible for 67% of the fatalitys in dog attacks!!

#2

definetly the owner. althougth getting a dog with PitBull can be a bad life decision and I'm far too pretty to go to prison!

#3

the owner. i see a guy nearly everyday with his 2 dogs walking him as he's not the one in control. one got loose a while ago & while my son held the other one we tried to catch it. it was after cats & going for a kill. I eventually got it after it went over a fence about 3 times & basically hanged itself if i hadnt got her off. I took her back to the owner who had got the other dog off my son & had taken it home to get his sons help catching the loose one. anyway I was able to walk it properly -i triwed the ceaser milan tricks (& i'm not a dog owner) I nearly got it home but then it saw some kids & it was all I could do to hold her, but the main reason was it had the wrong type of collar (just a loose leather one that when it pulls hard nearly comes off) these dogs get out frequently especially at night & try & kill the neighbourhood cats. the owner has been told by the spca/council to put his dogs on harnesses but does he comply?? no. does he use the correct collar & leashes?? does he carry a doggy poop bag???(well how can he with 2 dogs walking him & i say walking him because he is not in control) no to all of these questions so I say the owners like these are resposible. but there is the odd time when a greatly loved dog of many years who got on well with kids takes a bite like one of our neighbours a while ago but they immediately put it down as they know once they get a taste of flesh they want more. that dog was a rottie. they were good dog owners. I still say train the kids also tho, & also those (normally older ones) that tease & taunt dogs so that when a child becomes available unfortunately there is only one outcome which isnt a nice one.

#4

It's usually the kid that causes it. What are animals meant to do when someone gets up in their face and won't leave them alone?

#5

I would never leave my dogs alone with a child. They are not aggressive. However how would we reat if a someone pulled our ear or poked us in the eye. The dog does not have the insight to deal with accidental damage.

#6

I agree with never leaving kids alone with a dog, no matter how placid it may be. But that said i think dog owners need to share that responsibility with the kids parents. And I am pretty anti pit -bulls and Dobermans. Their is something brutal in their DNA no matter how kindly they are reared. We have 2 Pit bulls next door and they always run and bark at people when they see them. I have told our neighbour (who admittedly keeps a pretty close eye on them) in the kindest possible way, that if one gets loose I'll be calling the Dog Control.

#7

Its definitely the owners but the issue is also with the breed. End of day a dog bred for fighting/hunting is going to do more damage than say a sheep dog or a retriever. I have a lab and right from a puppy he would fetch he actually cant help him self specially if its in water. He has to get it and would bring it back without any training just part of his genes. So whilst you can have a good pit bull that is well treated and looked after well they do have the kill instinct in them so when they snap they snap and do alot of damage. As others have said i wouldn't leave my dog unsupervised with kids as whilst i trust him with them i don't trust the children with him! Tho seen him when he got over my nephew playing him like a drum he grunted at him then got up and went somewhere that my nephew couldn't get to him. which is exactly what you want a dog to do but if he couldn't get away then a nip is standard training to a naughty puppy which can damage a kid.


My daughter was attacked by a black lab. She walked past it while it was sitting on the porch and it just went for her face. This was a dog we knew, it lived on our property (it belonged to the landlords). When I returned from the hospital the owners had some how decided that it was my daughters fault (she was almost 2 and ALWAYS gentle with the dog) and that the dog would never do it again and if I though it would then we could just get the hell out. I called the council who did nothing, no follow up, nothing. I called again, nothing. Called again, and they said it was too late now, they couldn't do anything. We left and have never spoken to them again, but I believe the dog is still around, still walks on to the road as they are in a rural area across from a school.

In this case, DEFINITELY the owners.


yeah if my dog ever bit anyone would be a bullet for him that same day.

My point wasnt that labs or other dogs would never bite but they dont have the body structure/jaw and muscle tone and same amount of aggression thats bred into a fighting dog so tend to do less damage than if it was a pit bull etc, i think labs are responsible for more bites than any other dogs in nz tho thats due to the amount of labs vs other breeds in the population. But any dog will attack and bite, I find when walking my dog that the worst behaved and most aggressive are often small dogs "Oh they are just playing" "oh they have small dog syndrome" etc where if my dog was behaving in the same manner they would be horrified at "the big black scary dog"


That's what the landlord was saying when we left for the hospital, that it would be 'taken care of' by the time we got back, but his wife freaked out, and he has to live with her, so they fabricated their version of what happened and started to believe it and that was that. And you're right, it would have been a lot worse if it was a dog that was bred for fighting. And breeding little dogs? Who's idea was that???

#8

thing is with breeds too like the photo that does the rounds says in the 70's they blamed Doberman in the 80s German Shepards in the 90s rottweilers and now they blame pit bulls when will they blame people! My other theory is too tho the people who want a "tough" dog tend to be the same that wont look after them/train them properly much like their children just yell at them when they do something really out of line then wonder why they get in trouble.

#9

Totally owner, along with registering your dog, chipping and neutering they should also be required to attend training sessions.

#10

The owner is 100% responsible for their dog and it's actions. Best behaved dogs I have ever seen are in the US - where you would be able to sue the crap of anyone who's dog attacked you.


Good point. I wish I'd been in the states when my daughters was attacked. I would have loved to sue the pants off the owners, and get plastic surgery for my daughter. Not that it's all that bad now, 3+ years later, but you can still see the scars.

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